The SWU Podcast LIVE | 12/10/18 | The Star Wars Underworld

Friday, October 12, 2018

The SWU Podcast LIVE | 12/10/18

Posted by Dominic Jones on 10/12/2018 5 comments

On this episode, Dominic, Ben, and Chris recap the announcements from last weekends New York Comic Con. Then they finally wrap up their months long discussion of Solo: A Star Wars Story by discussing the final scenes. They debate whether or not the Maul scene should have been included, and look at the evolution of Han from Solo to A New Hope. Then to wrap up the show they analyze the latest leaked photos from The Mandalorian and The Last Jedi. All this and much more!

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5 comments:

Unknown said...

Wait did Dominic mean to say "Crossed all their Is and dotted their Ts"?

The Kanjakast thing with Katie was really funny for me cause I had just finished listening to my friends' podcast the Corusant Pulse where they went on the wiki and looked at the cast to check something and where like "wait it says Sam is playing Maul in solo?". I specifically commented on that saying "oh no that is totally someone misconstruing cause Sam has done ADR for the new films before"

And then mere minutes later I started Kanjakast cause Joel had sent it to me, and I instantly skipped to the Maul conversation by accident. I did not even catch that it was conjecture by Katie, I thought it was an actual confirmation so my attempts to fool myself into thinking it was false evaporated super fast.

So I will get into my thoughts on Maul in a bit, but just to the start of the convo and the Red skull point; the question is: but should star wars be handled like that on film?"

I don't know my answer to that, and I lean towards yes for the spin-offs, but I do think there is a strong point to be made that Marvel's constant setting up for other movies, or unexplained stuff like Red Skull is not equivalent cause not only are superhero stories a whole different beat, but Star Wars is not a linear timeline on film, so unlike Marvel you are not weaving a web, you are jumping around. It is a narrative yes, but the films are mostly separate narratives that thematically connect, while I think EU stuff needs to be brought in more and we need a more direct sense that stuff happens between films that is actually major; I still would argue that something like Maul is more than that cause star wars does not due teaser esq things in the films, not to that degree at least.

The MCU is built on the promise of what is next to come, but star wars often operates with you knowing what will come/talking about it frankly waiting for said backstory to be made, ie the OT talking of the PT. Marvel is known for end credit scenes and going for the long con, I think SW needs to earn people's trust at doing that, before it can do teaser stuff like this.

Those are just my very rambley thoughts on the MCU connection, not on Maul's cameo itself or if it should have been there. Ha right after I paused to write this, dominic makes my point better than I could have.

So I do really get what Ben is saying about grounding it in the universe and the TFA alien thing. I did feel sorta disconnected in TFA, it felt like I was in the twilight zone with common elements, but the actual makeup of the universe being different. That has subsided a bit and it is more of a gut thing, but it is still there.

However I think Maul is different not just cause planets are different than character, but rather cause Maul inherently implies another story that needs to be told. Using Chris's Rodian bartender example, said bartender does not have the ramifications that Maul beng alive, in power, and working with Qi'ra does. If Aurra had not been mentoned but actually showed up, the questions that raises about what she is up to are much more minimal cause most don't know who she is, and those that do will just say "oh wonder what she has been up to?" without it being a burning question.

Maul is just such a different beast. Even if they are going to go in more of the direction Chris is talking about (which I sorta want) they need to easy into that far better than the Maul cameo did. Like I felt far more star warsy in the flm when Teras Kasi was mentioned or when the Pykes got a live action appearance, or from my beloved Corellia, than I did from Maul

October 13, 2018 at 2:49 AM

Unknown said...

October 13, 2018 at 3:12 AM

Unknown said...

So I have very complicated feeling about the "you're the good guy" thing. I might make an article on 1128 down the line about it all things considered. Ostensibly my mindset on Han has always been that he is a bag guy who will have moments where his conscience (and by conscience I mean Chewie's paws) convince him to do the right thing or more so the bare minimum of the right thing. Often he will allow decent things to happen, but he will not stick his neck out for others. It is not just an act that he is selfish, he really is, though he knows that he is selfish, but it just does not matter to him. He sees nothing wrong with only looking out for he and chewie so long as he can avoid the outcome of what he did.

Pretty much the Jyn Erso thing "doesn't matter if you don't look up". I always go to the example from Heir to the Empire in with Lando and Han are chatting with Talon Karrde and his gang of very honorable smugglers and pirates. karrde is essentially the ultimate good guy criminal in star wars, even more than Booster Terix. Lando tells everyone about how Han used to use stolen Imperial transponder codes in order to fool ships, Imperials will know they are old and fire, but local authorities or other gangs will think it is the Empire and flee before actually being able to confirm what make ship it is. after all visuals on ships are not very common in star wars, normally you just have the cockpit and need a decent scan to get something like that image of the supremacy we see in TLJ.

So to the point Han once used the code on a criminal ship and the criminals got so scared they straight up fled to the escape pods and left the ship to Han, inside Han found they had been hauling slaves. He set them free and gave them the entire ship and the other haul and left.

Han responds to this telling of the story by defensively saying there was nothing in the ship worth stealing and the vessel was so old that it would lose him money to try and sell it and other excuses. Lando is just like "sure, sure you didn't do it cause it was he right thing pal"

This is how I always see Han and Lando, Han will let the right thing happen if it does not adversely effect him, and Lando will swindle and be egotistic, but he will do the right thing, for a price of course but mostly just to keep his reputation. I think the Lando mini nailed this perfectly with Lobot's speech at the end about how Lando is naturally a leader and an idealist, and that he deserves a cause to fight for, something to protect cause he can and does want to be more than just a criminal. "Get out of the game....Lando old buddy....you're better than this" Last Shot also plays with this

I think Han is someone with the potential to do with right thing, and does not like to see bad things happen, but he is not a good guy deep down. He has the makings of one, but I don't see Qi'ra's point that he is the good guy pretending to be bad, or this idea that he had to keep making hard calls. The comics have done a great job of showing the terrible things he did in the past. Han betrayed people leaving them to die, he ran off with Sana's share of their haul, so on and so on. Not to mention he smuggled drugs, we are not talking small time dealer who could never leave the streets cause racist and classist laws and social problems; Han willingly works for Jabba and smuggles spice and betrays and kills. He does it cause it is easy. That's not to say he never does good things, the Han Solo trilogy by A.C. Crispin shows Han doing good things at points, his saving of chewie got him kicked out and that was utterly selfless. However that was kind of the point, Han's dynamic with chewie comes from the one time he really put it all on the line for someone else. Han is not opposed to doing good, but he willingly does bad things simply for his own profit cause he takes the easy way out.

October 13, 2018 at 3:56 AM

Unknown said...

To tie back to Solo, I do like what they did with him, he feels like Crispin's young Han when he was more idealistic, but for me that third act somewhat fails the character as I see him. Han right away wants to help Nest, is told repeatedly that he is the good guy, and then is told by Nest that he would make a good leader and should join the Rebellion. I felt the latter to where forced or at least unneeded. If the film ended with Han giving over the Coaxium but having an excuse or if he was more unwilling at first, or said something or seemed disappointed at giving it away; I would have liked his ending a lot more.

I do really love how it ends, I love Alden, I love the final scene and the Sabbac scene; but I still have reservations about specifically making the point that Han is a good guy and calling his bad actions an act. I think having him return to his "true self" in ANH lessens my enjoyment of his arc, cause it feels much stronger if he really is just a jackass with the capacity for good, who when put on such a large scale finally can't bring himself to keep running so for once actually sticks his neck out. THat is similar to the other take, but I think having him secretly be a good person who has done bad things as opposed to a bad person, with some good moments, makes the redemption and growth lesser for me.

I think hammering in that he is a god guy and that he just pretends to be bad, or has to keep making grey decisions takes away something from Han. I never cared about the "Han shot first" thing, I still don't. But this kinda made me start to see that view slightly better cause I like showing that even if Han maybe wants to do good, you are not a good person pretending, and sometimes being bad - when you smuggle thousands of credits in spice, work for a massive crime boss, and swindle everyone you meet- at that point you are a bad person, that is your true self. Maybe I am overreading, but I think the "good guy" stuff runs the risk of being overly apologetic for Han and makes his arc more about redemption than just deciding to better himself.

I can totally understand the other perspective though

Again sorry for the long comments, but this ep was full of amazing debates so I had to join in

October 13, 2018 at 3:57 AM

Joel Davis said...

October 13, 2018 at 7:47 PM

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Friday, October 12, 2018

The SWU Podcast LIVE | 12/10/18

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