Thursday, March 29, 2012

Opinion: Why the Jedi are more "evil" than the Sith

45 comments
By: Dave Bouressa

*Note: I have not studied incredible mental disciplines such as meditation and techniques of that nature, so therefore some of my points may be considered “wrong” by those who have studied such mental disciplines. My point of view is that of an every day college student*

Before I go any further, I would like to clarify that I am in no way saying that Yoda is more evil than Darth Sidious. That would simply be untrue. The Sith as individuals are evil, murderous conquerors bent on controlling the galaxy. However, as an Order, the Jedi teachings and beliefs would be considered unintentionally more harsh, cruel, and in a sense, “evil”.

Let us take a look at the two codes of the Jedi and the Sith.

Jedi Code:
There is no emotion, there is peace
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, only harmony
There is no death, there is the force.

Sith Code:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength, I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The force shall free me

For now, let us concentrate on the Jedi code. “There is no emotion, there is peace”. The Jedi are not only encouraged, but taught to detach themselves from individuals because their emotions may interfere in their thinking of what is “right”. It is a very “Vulcan” way of thinking in the sense that they go for what is logical as opposed to what their emotions tell them. They seem to follow the idea of “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” and that causes much inner conflict. They may have to sacrifice someone they care about deeply to save a group of strangers. As a single Jedi, one may have incredible struggle with this choice and may suffer incredible guilt, but as an Order, the Jedi are forced to keep a “poker face” with their decision, and in turn, detach themselves emotionally from the galaxy they are trying to serve and protect.

The second line of “There is no ignorance, there is knowledge” is a fairly standard line that I tend to agree with, and I’m sure the Sith would agree with as well. Both sides seek knowledge. My only concern with this being in the Jedi code is that although the Jedi seek to gain more knowledge of the force, they also tend to stop others from gaining the same knowledge. As any religion, they are very limited to what their followers learn regarding the past of the Order, the horrible events that the Order has done in the past, and restrict information that is considered “dangerous”, when in most cases, it is simple knowledge that may cause someone to see outside the inner bubble that the Order resides within. In the time of the prequels, the Jedi Temple Library prided itself with having all the knowledge in the galaxy, with it’s librarian, Jocasta Nu, stating; “If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist”, when in reality, much of their information was tampered with or missing. They are not only lying to the Order, but they are lying to themselves by being in denial. Along with this, a good fraction of the library is restricted to the majority of the Order, with access allowed to only the highest of Masters on the council. I understand WHY they restrict the knowledge, but I still feel it is wrong. The Jedi feel that a quest for knowledge can easily lead to a quest for power, and with power comes the luring of the Dark Side. However, to completely restrict the information to people among your own ranks is possibly more dangerous than having the information available. I didn’t want to compare it to this, but I can’t think of anything else: It is the same as many schools teaching “Abstinence-only” Sex Education. Rather than completely restrict any knowledge, tell them about it, and how to protect themselves from the dangers. Otherwise, the result could be more damaging. So in a way, the entire line of “There is no ignorance, there is knowledge” is completely wrong to begin with, and the opposite is more true.

“There is no passion, there is serenity” is a fairly complicated figure. These two concepts (passion and serenity) are not majorly related. However, if you consider “passion” as chaotic, then these two concepts have very related contrasts. Many people would consider “passion” as something that you love (whether it’s an action, an object, or a person), or a motive to accomplishment, mostly falling into a positive area of thought. However, going back to the Jedi’s detachment from the galaxy, “passion” is viewed as dangerous. In “Revenge of the Sith”, Anakin states; “The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inwards, only about themselves”. Yet passion is but one of the contributors that would lead Anakin to become a Jedi in the first place. He wanted to become a Jedi. Given what “passion” means, look at another quote by Anakin: “Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is essential to a Jedi’s life. So you might say that we are encouraged to love.” Perhaps this is simply due to Anakin’s own conflicted emotions, but he states two beliefs of the Order that are both applied within the order, yet are both contradictions of each other. On one hand, passion is “evil”, while compassion is essential. Aside from the fact that they both have “passion” in the words, they really aren’t too similar, but at the same time, they are both only one step away from “love”. Besides, if there is no passion in being a Jedi, then why are you there? Yes, you are strong in the force, and the Jedi took you as a child into the Order, but as far as I know, a Jedi can leave the Order at any time, yet their numbers seem quite high. Without passion for what you are doing, one is simply no different than a droid, and in a scenario that the Jedi as an Order are in, being monks/keepers of the peace turned generals, that makes the Jedi very dangerous to not only themselves but to the entire galaxy.

“There is no chaos, there is harmony” is a line that can be taken in two ways. One way is outward, trying to keep the galaxy by the same standard. Prevent chaos throughout the galaxy, and keep the peace. However, this can also be taken as internal. As I said previously, the Jedi are to detach themselves from all emotion, and with emotion comes guilt and inner conflict. The Jedi must remove all inner conflict and simply believe that if you remove yourself from this “chaos”, then you will find internal harmony. This is not a point that makes the Jedi more “evil” and cruel, such as the other lines of the code have, but it all goes back to the detachment component. I understand that with meditation and other techniques, people are able to find inner peace, but much like how you cannot have light without dark, you cannot have peace without conflict. Conflict is what drives us, and forces us to better ourselves. For the Jedi to put aside this conflict, even ignore it, seems incredibly counter-productive to any form of growth within their own ranks and is frankly a blind way of looking at things.

“There is no death, there is only the force” is a fairly standard line that I don’t feel needs any in-depth explanation. Much like other religions, the Jedi believe in an afterlife and becoming one with the force after death.

Now we look at the Sith code, and unlike the Jedi code where each statement is completely separate and not directly related to the ones before it, the Sith code builds on itself and grows, much like the person following it. Looking at the actual code, it is very much a contrast to the beliefs of the Jedi, and contrary to the Jedi, the Sith seem more in depth into growth and bettering themselves not only as an Order, but as individuals. In fact, if you take out the very first line and the very last line, the entire code could be taken as a personal mantra that a regular person could use in their every day life to gain success in one’s life.

Now, again, I would like to mention that the Sith as individuals are evil, murderous, power-hungry beings who want to control the galaxy. But that does not mean that everything about them is “wrong” or “evil”. The most prominent quality about the Sith that I find admirable is the fact that they are honest. Yes, they are manipulative, but in a way, so are the Jedi. The Sith have little to hide, and will therefore have no problems being open with the truth. They may only tell half the truth and not the entire story, but very rarely do they actually lie and twist their words around. For example, When Palpatine is telling Anakin about Darth Plagueis “The Wise”, he tells the true story about how Plagueis learned the secrets of the midi-chlorians and how to save people from death. What he didn’t tell Anakin was that the apprentice that killed Plagueis was actually Palpatine. Another Palpatine example would be how he informed Vader about Padme’s death. “It seems in your anger, you killed her” is not entirely untrue. Anakin did not directly kill her, but his actions caused her to die of a broken heart (ugh). Now, before anyone brings it up, I would like to mention Palpatine’s manipulation of the Senate to become emperor. If you watch episodes 1-3, it is clear that he is simply using everyone around him to gain a higher power, but at the same, he very rarely flat-out lies to get what he wants. He will take the truth and tell the Republic Senate the half that he wants them to hear and use reverse-psychology to get to a higher power. Also, Palpatine is a special example because when addressing the senate and other Republic officials, he is not speaking as a Sith Lord. Palpatine is playing the part of a politician, and when he does lie, I feel it is coming more from the political background as opposed to the teachings of the Sith. (I have not read the recently released Darth Plagueis novel, so I may be incorrect in this particular assessment. I am simply speaking from my experience watching the films).

The Jedi, however, lie frequently and rationalize it as speaking from “a different point of view”. When Luke asks “How did my father die?”, Obi-Wan proceeds to tell him that a Jedi named Darth Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin Skywalker, when in truth, Anakin IS Darth Vader. He also tells Luke that his father wanted him to have his lightsaber when he was old enough. Granted, I understand that there is no way Luke would have proceeded on the adventure he did if Obi-Wan had told him that his father was the Emperor’s right hand man and one of the most feared men in the galaxy, and that the lightsaber he holds in his hand was taken as his father lay next to a river of lava, burned and crippled at the hands of Obi-Wan himself. But when Luke discovers this, Obi-Wan says, “What I told you was true, from a certain point of view”, and needless to say, Luke is not too happy about that. There is a fine line between twisting your words, and lying. Saying person A was killed by person B, when they are the same person is a blatant lie. Another example of Jedi manipulation would be from Yoda, while training Luke on Dagobah. Luke simply asks, “Is the Dark Side stronger?” and Yoda replies with a very quick “NO!” followed by a more collected and calm “no”. I know many people take this as Yoda telling Luke to get the idea out of his head because it is wrong, however, I’ve always taken it as Yoda telling him to get the idea out of his head because it is right. The Dark Side is stronger, and he does not want Luke to know that. At this time, there are only 2 known Jedi, and if Luke believes that the Dark Side is stronger, then there is a greater chance that he will join the Dark Side. Yoda again states, “For once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny”. Now, this is simply untrue. Again, I am no expert on the Expanded Universe, but I do know that there have been several Jedi who have turned to the Dark Side and returned to the light. Which means one of two things; either Yoda is lying to Luke and using this as a scare tactic, or Yoda is lying to himself because those are the ideas of the Jedi Order.

A major topic of why I enjoy the prequels (and possibly why many dislike them) is that it shows that the Jedi are flawed. In the Original Trilogy, we have only 2 Jedi to use as reference (Obi-Wan and Yoda) and we are given the idea that the Jedi are an Order of “super-heroes” who can do no wrong, yet in the prequels, they are incredibly flawed, favor questionable methods, and are incredibly untrustworthy. Even in the “Clone Wars” TV series, a recent story arc dubbed the “Bounty Hunters Arc” shows how the Jedi are willing to lie to not only the entire galaxy by “killing” a Jedi to accomplish a simple goal, but will lie to the majority of the Order as well. Only a few select people were in on the plan. The Jedi are not only more untrustworthy than the Sith, but they are sloppy about it. The Sith will either tell you half the truth, or they will not tell you anything at all to hide their true motives, while the Jedi flat-out lie and manipulate with people’s emotions to hide the truth.

To recap, I simply find the views and teachings of the Sith Order more simple to grasp, and more accepted within today’s society. If you were to take “Jedi” and “Sith” out of the equation and simply concentrate on the teachings and ideals, and then survey people about which way they would rather live their lives, I am quite confident that the majority of people would choose the ways of the Sith-not because they are evil, but because in all honesty, the Jedi live harsh lives. Granted, I am a college student living in the age of consumerism, laziness, and questionable values, but going through life without emotional attachment, with limited knowledge, and forcing to serve and protect something you are supposed to be loyal to without actually being passionate for what you’re doing, all for the sake of inner and outer peace seems almost like a physical, mental, and emotional prison sentence and would be considered by most people as a punishment, rather than a civil duty to do good. Yet, I find it interesting how the Jedi are still considered to be the “good guys”, and the Sith are considered the “bad guys”. Perhaps people are too invested in the end goal, and the intentions, rather than the steps that are taken to get there. While the Jedi have good intentions, they take harsh steps to get there, and while the Sith are considered the “bad guys”, they follow the basic steps that the majority of humanity would also follow. Does that make simple humanity and society “bad”? Or is it more a question of morality and what is viewed as “good” in people’s lives? To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi, “The truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of views”, and what may be right or good to someone, may be considered bad or wrong to another. I simply find it interesting that the group that most people would truthfully relate to more, are considered the villains. Whether or not you view the Jedi as the “good guys” or the Sith as the “bad guys”, think about it the next time someone asks if you would rather be a Jedi or a Sith Lord. Truly take a moment to really think about which one you would rather be in that galaxy far, far away…. your own answer may surprise you…
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45 comments:

Tzipporah Machlah Klapper said...

You forgot to mention that the ability to use the Force is biologically transmitted, they refuse to allow their members to marry, and then deny responsibility for things they could prevent ON THE BASIS THAT THEIR NUMBERS ARE TOO SMALL.
The comparison to Vulcans doesn't work for the Jedi. The Vulcans resorted to Surak's philosophy because they were on the brink of making the planet completely uninhabitable due to warfare with weapons that made nuclear bombs look like toys. What reason do the Jedi have?
Also, the Jedi kidnap and brainwash small children, then refuse them the right to see their families. This is why the only character I can still love in the prequels is Obi-Wan. He's been brainwashed, he hasn't been able to see his brother and parents in years, and yet he was apprenticed to the one knight who could love him enough to make him a good person (for the record, I like Qui-Gon too. He's the best of the Jedi, probably because he knows the Sith aren't completely evil).

Unknown said...

Good article! My opinion is that jedi and sith code are quite different. Jedi code says what you can and cannot do, but Sith code is rather a tool to achieve goals.
There is also a big difference in the origin of these orders. Jedi were founded by philosophers, but Sith came from the society of warriors.
But in Star Wars films, Sith are always bad guys.

Clara Macintosh said...

Sith Lord...even though I know nothing about Star Wars. My niches are animation and Harry Potter.

Unknown said...

Don't crucify me if this already happened in the Expanded Universe, because I am not too familiar with that and do not wish to go digging to make sure, but what if a Jedi (or Sith) went Rogue and began a new order (for a lack of better word) of Force-users who were not aligned to either the Jedi or the Sith and used the Force unrestrictedly? I think it would be an interesting to see a story like that.

Unknown said...

I found that this article provided a very interesting point of view. I think that – much like politicians, and religious leaders- the vast majority of people consider the Sith evil, because of their actions rather than their philosophies. Time and again this article points to the fact that the Jedi live selfless lives, and that the vast majority of people would be unwilling to live their lives like that. And while this may be true, how many of those people actually depend on people that in reality do live self-sacrificing lives? We live in a society where people are becoming increasingly selfish, so the concept of a person completely giving of themself so others can have, peace, freedoms, rights, liberties, and the like, is a concept that’s more and more alien to our societies thought process. We’ve become so accustomed to civil servants, and sometimes we get so complacent in our own freedoms, that we forget there are places in the world where people are literally begging for “Jedi like” servants to help them, because “Sith like” government rulers have dominated them. And while the Jedi aren’t perfect we should remember, they never claim to be. How the Jedi respond to crisis situations is merely a means to an end in their minds. The Jedi want peace until one joins the force, while the Sith want control before one joins the force. Peace and control are almost synonymous with each other. What is peace with control of our self? What is control without peace within our self? Much like the Sith, the Jedi want to consolidate the control of power to a few. Thus, the imperfection in their respective viewpoints.
In short we view the two based on their treatment of others rather than their view of others.
The Jedi are power hungry, selfless individuals who kill discriminately.
The Sith are power hungry, selfish individuals who kill indiscriminately.

Anonymous said...

Paul Butts in the future there is a third Order that is based from Jedi Order called the Imperial Knights. They if you ask me are the real balance between the Jedi and the Sith. Their first loyalty is to the Emperor. But they are allowed to get married have kids, etc. But they don't go out enslaving people but are true to the force. If you have watched the clone wars series they seem more like the old man trying to keep the balance between Dark and Light side from either getting to out of balance.

Michael G said...

Ok, i really enjoyed this article, i admire it. To the person who mentioned Qui-Gon, i tell you this... He was deeply attuned to the Living Force, that is why he had his views of the Force and the Sith. And these are some points that are attached to your article, the Living Force and the Unifying Force. While Light and Dark are opposed, the Living and Unifying can be seen as "lovers" instead of rival siblings as the Son and Daughter were portrayed in the Clone Wars Tv Series. But without diving too deep in philosophy here, my point is this: The Jedi, as you mentioned all their traits, focused more on the Unifying Force, which dealt with the cosmic-scale force, it dealt with the future, the end, the ultimate, while the Living Force dealt with the "Meaningful" scale force, it dealt with the present, with the connection between creatures, the process, the variables if you will. The Jedi, or most Jedi anyway, concerned themselves with the after, with finding ultimate peace, basically they just prepared for the Netherworld, while the Sith, obviously, only cared to live as much as they could, which ironically made them crave power and in turn it lead to their demises, but every Sith Lord searched for Immortality. What the Jedi achieved was not "worth it" in a sense, because it contradicted life, and in turn the Sith desire. Now on what you mentioned about the Sith being honest, there lies the beauty of the argument: The Jedi try to change this world into what they desire, truth is harsh and complex, the Sith need not lie, because the universe is chaotic, they embrace that, while the view of the Jedi can only be found perhaps in the afterlife, which is not everyone that can enter. So this duality between the Orders, its irony is the point, like a cruel joke by the Force, perhaps even what Kreia (Darth Trayus) believed, that the Force was a sadistic and cruel entity in itself, it did not care about the countless beings in the universe, it just manipulated them for its will (will of the force), and that to truly be free was to strip the Force from existence. But back to the point, the Sith ideal closely resembles a "corruption" of the Living Force, they focus on the present, the life, the connections, while Jedi mostly care about the grand scheme, which not one being can ever achieve, while each Sith can achieve their desire. Maybe that is the point, the Jedi may never be able to achieve their goals because they are not meant to, while the Sith can achieve it and then just die. So in this sense, both perspectives are flawed... but the Sith always seek more and achieve more because of their liberties...

JY said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JY said...

I posted a rebuttal to this article, parts of which I agreed with, but due to a glitch it didn't post. Anyone who wants to have a discussion or wants to know which parts I don't agree with (the author of the article might be interested) can email me at jysmart@gmail.com
please do put the subject of the email as star wars, and put the link to this article in the email so that I know it's not sapm.

JY said...

Basically, I agree with much of what Will Lawrence said and also refuted some of the criticisms of the Jedi code. Also, I refuted the claim that the Jedi lie but the sith do not.

Lee Walker said...

Some of the same thoughts here (from 2002): "The Case for the Empire" -- http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp?nopager=1

Unknown said...

In the old Republic Jedis could visit their families and weren't brainwashed.
And there were a lot of rogue Jedis that became sith but not of the Sith order
The war bettwin the Jedis and the Siths started when Naga Shadow one of the first Sith and the Sith Emperor at his time captured 2 Republic Explorers and freed them secretly from his prison so he could lie to his people that the Republic freed them and was going to launch an assault on Korriban the Sith Homeworld

Unknown said...


If you don't know star wars (which you don't) then Shut Up! I'm a big nerd of Star Wars and half the stuff you said was..
1. A stupid Opinion
2. A showoff fact
3. Stupid Know it all wannabe fact.

99/100 things in there are wrong so shut up!

hellrazoromega said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
hellrazoromega said...

I'm not seeing how "because it is simple it is the better path'" works. I have to be honest I am not one of those people who relate to the Sith as you say. The Jedi fail, they fail a lot but there aspire to be better and have good intentions (sure---road to hell an all but they are better than evil intentions IMO). They try not to do harm or kill without good reason (again they fail from time to time--as do we all). The Sith have a built in mechanism to betray each other and kill or slaughter with wanton abandon. Unless they have fallen Jedi don't slaughter children, or the helpless, Sith do. Sure the Sith code sounds cool, until some body kills a bunch of people and claims they were just breaking their chains. "Hey man I'm free, agree with me or eat a face full of Force Lightning." If you aspire to that then you worry me, my friend.

If you look at the history of the Jedi over the years in the EU the Code has changed greatly (as all philosophies do) into the incarnation that we see in the films. In other eras many of the things you list were not true they exist in the films as reaction to things that happened in the past.

I just can't see how you can call the Sith "good guys" and The Jedi "bad" simple based on issues like control. Now I have to say I'm a libertarian in real life and am no fan of control, but we have to have some control. Frankly, if the Jedi did exist it would be a toss up if it would be better to have then in an order or running free as individuals. Are the Jedi controlling, sure but no more so than many other religious orders, are they prefect--heck no, and a decent Jedi will admit that. But to say that makes them "evil" and a group that will murder the helpless in the name of "freedom" as the Sith Code says is "good" ---gonna have to agree to disagree. Nice theory but I don't concur.

Unknown said...

I would like it if ninja fisto would elaborate on his knowledge rather than throwing a generic "you're wrong" argument and walking away.

Luther Gentenaer said...

The force shall free me,
Though I am passionate, I am serene,
Though I am ignorant, I walk with knowledge,
Though I am powerful, I'll not want victory,
There is no death, only chaos
There is no life, only harmony
The force is free, my chains are broken.
____________________________________________________________________

"The force shall free me,"
> You are not yet free. Freedom CAN be attained through the Force, as it did for others. By recitation, meditation and discussion under tutelage of a master and your colleagues, you will understand how the Force is free and how you can wield it to become free. By reciting all the sententiae, you are at all times reminded of the paths already walked and the paths that lie before you. Jedi used to think the Force IS free, Sith thought it MAKES free, but could be controlled (therefore in itself wasn't free). If you put an AND here instead of an OR, the reformist idea is that the Force both is free AND can make you free.

"Though I am passionate, I am serene"
> The aim here is to learn about your passions, learn to be without agitation and achieve serenity. This is the first step as a true adept of the force, since untamed emotions and passions are dangerous in combination with the power of knowledge that comes after. While Jedi believed they could rid themselves of passion and Sith believed serenity to be a silly weak thing, the reformist JeSi believes that he is inherently passionate, but can achieve serenity to better wield the Force. It took a while but the one thing that convinced both Sith and Jedi of the usefulness of this tenet was: The quieter you become, the more you are able to listen.

"Though I am ignorant, I walk with knowledge,"
> This is a reiteration of the first lesson, however now, you explore knowledge guided by the code. It is also a reminder that you will never be fully knowledgeable, but remain ignorant. You are not the Force, you partake in it. Just as you are not knowledge, but you partake in it. But hey, this makes knowledge all the more important and the responsibilities that come with it the more clear. You walk with, you do not use or consume. Others have known before you and others will know again. The path will remain. After long disputes concerning these topics, both Jedi and Sith holocrons of ancient times were dusted off to find new things concerning this tenet and, while they didn't find anything new about ignorance and knowledge, they could finally agree that they'd been ignorant of more than a few things for a very long time. That in itself was worth remembering.

"Though I am powerful, I'll not want victory,"
> Honed bodies and tempered minds make excellent strategists. Both Sith and Jedi have been very militaristic in the past, but with the rise of the JeSi reformist order, the overarching sentiment was that of alliance and agreement. The lessons here are diplomacy, advanced levels of forcewielding and using 'the force as a means', there is no actual beginning or end state.

There is no death, only chaos
> The devotee, in this stage, familiarizes himself with death. When a devotee has no chance to familiarize himself with death after life, a form of regression is used to learn about death before life. You learn that death is not absolute, but part of the force, and that it looks as something absolute, because the (after-/before-)effect of death is highly chaotic.

There is no life, only harmony
> The devotee learns about the generative force of life, its role as harmonizer and root of the manifested. He/she learns that all is harmony, even the interdependence of life and death.

The force is free, my chains are broken.
> After all knowledge and training, respectively the symbolical and literal wading through the force, the devotee should have a good understanding of what freedom in The Force is and be able to choose to be unbound by the manifested or bound until he/she chooses to be unbound, like Obi Wan and Yoda did.

What do you guys think?

Unknown said...

why has no one brought up the grays?

Unknown said...

dude not all religions seek to absorb back into nature.. thats kind of the sheeple side of religion. this is what the hindus referred to as right hand path, whereas what they term left hand path is the side of religion where one seeks apotheosis (becoming a god) Dr. Stephen Flowers Ph.D. wrote a good treatment on the topic called lords of the left hand path, which anyone should read, it opens your eyes to alot of what defines the core concepts of different forms of religion, and the differences in how each type is practiced. instead of the usual comparisons of godnames and other nonsense that has little to do with the core principles

Bellator said...

In my opinion, the Jedi are evil and Sith are misunderstood. If you look at it this way, their (Jedi) idea of balance is all Jedi, no Sith. How is this balanced? It is the exact opposite of balance. Plus, how do they accomplish this balance? The seek out and murder the Sith they find......where I come from, this is called genocide. If I were Sith, I would be angry and vow to kill all Jedi too, it would basically be self preservation. Plus, as stated above, the younglings are taken from their families and brainwashed, never allowed to see their families again, all because they are force sensitive? Really? No choice, no option? I mean who would say no to a Jedi? And now, the Sith. I think the movies making the Sith evil is propoganda, for lack of a better word. If you read the Sith Code, it in no place states that they are evil or malicious. It says Peace is a Lie. If you look at human history, that would be true. As long as there has been people, there has been combat. The Sith code speaks of passion, that is an emotion and not a bad one. It speaks of strength, again, not a bad thing. Power, victory, freedom.......none are bad or evil. So, to keep this short, It seems to me that the Jedi are in fact evil and the Sith are misunderstood.

Unknown said...

Well he's not talking about the people who follow the codes,rather he's talking about the codes themselves.however one could say that both the orders have done questionable things before.the Sith more than the Jedi,but he's talking only about the codes.

YoYo said...

I am a little disappointed in this theory. I don't think there is enough to show that the Jedi are evil based on their code alone.

One can argue that the Jedi and sith strive for the same goal, but go about it in different ways. The Jedi seek peace through controlling oneself, while sith find peace through controlling of others.

(So essentially to the Sith, the ends justify the means, or that any path to peace is a good path, while the Jedi believe in the right path towards peace.)

I was hoping you would bring up how the Jedi council decended into darkness throughout the prequels and clone wars. You can argue that their hubris and arrogance led them to make very questionable decisions during this time period. There were many Jedi that cautioned some of their actions brought them dangerously close to the dark side (a departure from their righteous path towards peace).

It would be very fun to discuss how Darth Sidious may have caused this hubris and arrogance in the Jedi because of how masterfully he shrowded the republic in darkness. Talk about a true sith incarnate. I don't honestly think the council had a real chance against Sidious.

Unknown said...

It's like christianity. The Sith eat from the tree of knowledge, while the Jedi follow the real translation of the new testament. You don't get saved by faith, that's a mistranslation. The true message is of obedience. You are saved by following the rules and being obedient.It's not "follow me" it's "follow my rules". So i've been told by bible scholars about the translations.

Drakec1 said...

There is a real world equivalent to the jedi. It would actually make their detachment make a bit more sense.
A police officer has to follow a similar code. They must be completely unbiased in their dealings with the public.
Now, we see alot of situations where the police are not unbiased. But would that police officer see it that way?
The jedi may lie, but they do so to try and keep the peace. They may do somethings that are questionable, but they do so to protect the galaxy as a whole. They may be flawed, but they seek to live in a state of relative peace instead of the tyranny that the Sith would bring.
That being said, the only war i know about in the original trilogy is with the rebels. The sith attained a peaceful galaxy. An unstable, tyrannical galaxy, but still peaceful. If only it wasn't for those damn meddling rebels.

Unknown said...

If only there were a Facebook "like" button here. I would like to add my voice to those that want to hear an elaboration

Unknown said...

Actually, there is a problem with that theory, and it is the fact that the rebels were originally (in the beginning) the remnants of the old republic that Sidius failed to exterminate (speaking of genoside) and therefore, his "peaceful empire" never WAS truly peaceful. From the start, it was Darth Sidius and his "agree with me or die" leadership tactic (used irl by such leaders as Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin) that brought the APPEARANCE of peace, but there was never a general accepting of the empire and a complete peace throughout. As a matter of fact, even assuming the rebels WERE the antagonists, why did Sidius have so many trained and deadly servants (designed solely for spying and assassination) to begin with?

Unknown said...

To be perfectly honest when the Angels showed me the Jedi knight in 1974 there was only one and he was not only the destroying angel sent into Egypt to destroy the first born but also the same as the angel who destroyed the Canaanites and Jericho. And maybe Sodom and Gomorrah. The force is the will of God and George Lucas Stole this from a seven year old kid who lived around the corner from his cousin. He has a terrible price waiting for him for twisting that which was of God and then lying about it and distorting it to cover his ass.

Unknown said...

It's too bad your all fans of a lie, not just a fictional tale, but a child's dreams that were ripped away from him by a dishonest POS. Named George Lucas.

Unknown said...

http://youtu.be/oB03P6AcQ0g This is just one of the last videos of 9 which have been posted for a year. He won't do anything about it because if he tries to prove its not true he will only end up proving that it is true. Sorry fans.

Unknown said...

the funny thing about such a star wars discussion - in my opinion - is, that normally noone takes into account that it is a written story. and in terms of it`s incoherent storytelling it is not really good written. so i ask, who thinks, that mr. lucas knew about the relationship between luke and darth vader in episode 1? ah, sorry, episode 4? :-)
the story evolved with the forthcoming prequels, sequels, books, comics, games, whatever...
and there are many many things that don't fit.
a science fiction story with real buddhists reigning over the galaxy, telling the bad guys "take our riches, take our lifes, they don't mean so much to us" would be rather short. but science fiction buddhists with lightsabers and spaceships? --- WOW!!! :-)

Unknown said...

There is google the old republic preview on youtube and it's the most recent one

Unknown said...

There is google the old republic preview on youtube and it's the most recent one

Unknown said...

you know who also got their goals in a fair way? by democracy? the bluddy natzis!!! and who didn't? all the rebels that resisted their kings and queens in their country, for democracy, so I think that I rather be not a jedi and not a sith and if I have to, then it would be a jedi

Unknown said...

Man go read Nieztzche. u will like it.

TrueNova said...

both the Jedi and the Sith are controlling people only one group is doing it through force and the other is doing through "peace" in my opinion both groups are evil.

Anniston Says.... said...

All he's doing is putting the facts together, and if you don't like the facts, then bug off.

Anniston Says.... said...

There's also a theory about how basically neither the Sith nor the Jedi are well rounded people, which I agree with. The Jedi remove all emotions, whereas the Sith only have negative emotions. A normal person would be the " balance" between the Force.

Anniston Says.... said...

This is what all force-users should follow.

Anniston Says.... said...

Those who elaborate and give a solid backing to their arguments will often win the argument, or at least gain a tie.

Unknown said...

He is not stating facts. He's mixing fact with opinion in order to support his conspiracy-theory.

investednumber said...

you guy are all sad to take somthing that if fictional and have a argument about it, i mean come on there freaking films, get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unknown said...

are you serious the jedi and the sith both are flawed orders as a couple of statements cannot fit one person optimally a peron wants to be in the light but when they realize that the dark side grants its user much more freedom, that being the point one order fills a person with constraints and the other offers no constraints thus i suggest that the right path exists in between the closest to it is the gray jedi whose oath is:
lowing through all, there is balance
There is no peace without a passion to create
There is no passion without peace to guide
Knowledge stagnates without the strength to act
Power blinds without the serenity to see
There is freedom in life
There is purpose in death
The Force is all things and I am the Force
but stil its not the best oath out there the starwars franchise would have better storytelling if each individual could select path for himself it is not upto the council to decide if he is right or not jedi not only brainwash children but also add multiple constraints due to which their extinction was predetermined because a large amount of their enemies are former friends and vader himself being a very rebelious person should have benn given more freedom, but then again it is an religious organisation which cannot decide what is good for every one of its members but seriously they should think around this logic

Anonymous said...

After reading the article and some of the comments attached. I realize non of you guys know where the idea of Jedi came from??!!. You guys think Jedi was created inside George Lucas head (well probably just the word 'Jedi') but the whole concept of Jedi came from the Shaolin Monk. They lived in peace and the practice Buddhism, at the same time they kick ass. They don't rule a country or the government.

There were even a documentary made out of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABzvBiGeKRg

Learn more and may the force be with you.

RHJunior said...

It's more that BOTH the Sith and the Jedi philosophies are fatally flawed. Ironically, BOTH philosophies teach self-isolation and separation from all connections-- the Sith because it makes you "compassionate and weak" while the Jedi say it's because connections make you lean towards the Dark. Any philosophy that tells you that love is evil is self-evidently morally defunct. I would personally love to see a "Jedi heresy"--- a brotherhood of Force users who gain power in the force by EMBRACING those connections the Jedi and the Sith shun. They rage against evil; they love passionately; they mourn deeply; they rejoice emphatically; they live life fully and richly while their parsimonious cousins shrivel away in their bitterness or fade to navel-gazing nothingness. While the Jedi sit around meditating after the Death Star blows up and the Sith fly off to rage and seethe, the Third Way force users shotgun a Red Bull, smash the cans on their foreheads and scream "AWESOME! LET'S DO THAT AGAIN!"

Nathnathn said...

Both are flawed in my opinion.
And on who did the worst crimes
For large scale death it’s actually a tie
Sith have wiped out entire worlds.
The jedi/old republic have done the same
Not to mention the sith of galactic war era and on are born from the survivors of the sith genocide.
For a more personal scale it would to me push more to the jedi.
Taking a prisoner hostage and wiping his mind and replacing it with a fake identity to use as a tool. done by the council at the time while lying later on to the jedi to captured him saying his mind was to damaged to coverup there actions. “Revan/darth revan.
Tho that in no way puts that the sith haven’t been as bad but erasing a persons mind is in my opinion the cruelest fate.
Tho on the jedi in no way are they like police in a country that still holds its laws.
They tend to believe themselves above the law that there supposed to support.

Ultimately I consider the good/evil bit to be individuals.

Also a note in around the movie era they also tend to act without properly investigating.
Galidraan murdering the true mandalorians on the behest of a corrupt governor who wanted to avoid paying for there services.
“Cant remember the planet name”
Intervening in a war in favour of a race of slavers to put down a slave revolute.
Giving birth to general greveous.

“Sry if any spellings off my ipads auto correct has been glitching out since the last time i updated it”.

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